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UG Post
Mar 15, 2013 6:45:10 GMT -5
Post by monk1410 on Mar 15, 2013 6:45:10 GMT -5
So this deck has been showing up a lot and I did some testing with it last night. Most decks are similar with the only question being Explore?
Here is my current list:
4 Cloudpost 4 Glimmerpost 6 Forest 5 Island 2 Remote Isle 1 Shmimering Grotto
1 Mnemonic Wall 4 Mulldrifter
3 Chromatic Sphere 4 Chromatic Star 4 Compulsive Research 4 Crop Rotation 4 Expedition Map 4 Explore 1 Ghostly Flicker 1 Kaervek's Torch 4 Prophetic Prism 4 Temporal Fissure
SB
2 Fade Away 4 Moment's Peace 2 Fangren Marauder 3 Reap and Sow 2 Multani's Decree 2 Tilling Treefolk
Any thoughts on this new up and comer?
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UG Post
Mar 15, 2013 12:08:53 GMT -5
Post by Fan of History on Mar 15, 2013 12:08:53 GMT -5
I have played against Simic Stormpost three times in Videos so far. It looks really good. I was playing pretty poor matchups for it though. Here I am playing Goblins: www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVcxgP322e0Here I am playing Stompy www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cHTu8ToZaMHere I am playing Rot Wolf Control (infect control) www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKIG5hu-sKUI think Simic Stormpost is a very strong choice in the metagame if it shifts more towards Izzet Cloudpost and control decks. It should be the fastest of all the temporal fissure decks and it sure beats UB Trinket Control quite hard
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ckangas
Raging Brainstorm
Posts: 69
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UG Post
Mar 17, 2013 21:46:47 GMT -5
Post by ckangas on Mar 17, 2013 21:46:47 GMT -5
Imo explore is the right call. It's mana acceleration that doesn't create card disadvantage.
In the end I think this deck is a complete meta call. Elves and MGA seem to actually be running LD in the board now. Goblins (if they have the proper LD in the board) isn't particularly good...despite the glimmers, and delver seems to be a weak MU.
But if Post decks go to 50% instead of 20% (or whatever they are at the moment) I'd say this deck is in a strong place.
I'm not sure if it's "faster" than familiar storm. Familiar (without disruption) can go off turn 3-4 with good hands. UG isn't weak to creature removal like familiar is, however. I'd say that and the LD post-board makes UR-Post a much better MU than familiar. MUs like MGA, however, I'd say are worse off.
Personally, which deck is "better" depends on the meta.
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UG Post
Mar 18, 2013 4:42:19 GMT -5
Post by monk1410 on Mar 18, 2013 4:42:19 GMT -5
So after testing this deck a bunch I have made some changes
My current list is:
4 Cloudpost 4 Glimmerpost 4 Forest 5 Island 2 Remote Isle 1 Shmimering Grotto 2 Slippery Karst
1 Mnemonic Wall 4 Mulldrifter
4 Chromatic Sphere 4 Chromatic Star 4 Compulsive Research 4 Crop Rotation 4 Expedition Map 3 Reap and Sow 1 Ghostly Flicker 1 Kaervek's Torch 4 Prophetic Prism 4 Temporal Fissure
SB
2 Swirling Sandstorm 4 Moment's Peace 2 Fangren Marauder 3 Respite 2 Multani's Decree 1 Tilling Treefolk 1 Reap and Sow
A few things
- Explore vs Reap and Sow
Reap and sow is only slightly slower than explore but has 2 massive benefits.
1) being able to fetch additional posts 2) being able to have MD land destruction
- 7 fog effects in the sideboard
In my opinion this is completely necessary as it helps fight against aggro on minimal mana. While they destroy your land the fog effects give you infinite time to recover.
- Delver
The delver matchup has been 50/50, If you have a steady draw you can usually fissure before the kill you and winning from there is easy. However if you stumble at all expect an up hill battle as they can counter every attempt to get back into the game.
- Swirling Sandstorm
Originially I wanted an answer to affinity's 4 toughness guys but this card has been amazing vs all the creature decks. You fog a few times while they over extend and BAM they lose their board.
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ckangas
Raging Brainstorm
Posts: 69
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UG Post
Mar 20, 2013 23:39:55 GMT -5
Post by ckangas on Mar 20, 2013 23:39:55 GMT -5
I'm not sure if I'd say explore and reap and sow are of a similar speed.
Assuming your land doesn't come into play untapped, explore costs 1 mana, and can be cast on turn 2 (which is important in the deck).
Reap and Sow will always cost at least 3, and can't be cast until 4 mana. In MUs where it is good, you'll be casting it for 6 mana. (so a net of 5).
Reap and Sow's biggest benefits are obviously that it can search for any land and has LD attached to it. It's probably a closer comparison to expedition map in that regard.
I'm not saying explore is 100% the right call over reap and sow (I'd prefer a way to be able to play both), but the cards just feel like very different slots. It isn't rampant growth vs heart expedition vs explore...
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UG Post
Mar 21, 2013 3:45:09 GMT -5
Post by monk1410 on Mar 21, 2013 3:45:09 GMT -5
I guess it does not compete with explore entirely in function but it does compete with it in terms of slots.
This deck has 56 main deck slots that are pretty much set in stone. In the last 4 slots you will see a combination of
- 1 extra land - 4 Explore - 1 Chromatic Sphere - 1 Fangren Marauder - 2 or 3 Moment's Peace
For those slots I have chosen
1 Chromatic Sphere 3 Reap and Sow
After running it through the daily I am confident Reap and Sow is the right choice. It makes fissure and post matchups great and even against aggro decks can fetch a glimmerpost.
I prefer not to have any dead cards main deck like Moment's Peace and Fangren Marauder and personally do not like explore in this deck.
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UG Post
Mar 22, 2013 13:23:27 GMT -5
Post by cweaver on Mar 22, 2013 13:23:27 GMT -5
Good job on the 4-0 monk! Did you split round 4 or play it out? I saw your round 1 opponent was UB Trinket Control, what else did you face? How were the matchups?
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UG Post
Mar 22, 2013 14:11:42 GMT -5
Post by monk1410 on Mar 22, 2013 14:11:42 GMT -5
Thanks, I actually 4-0ed the day before too. Played out all 4 rounds both times too. Overall I was 16-1 in games.
1st daily
Round 1 - mono red burn
He kept throwing damage at my face, I use map, rotation and reap to get all the glimmer posts then use flicker and fissure to reuse them.
2-0
Round 2 - mono red burn
Same as above
2-0
Round 3 - mirror
I have the advantage here with reap in the main. Game 1 comes down to me getting the first fissure and taking over from there. Game 2 I have a couple of early reaps that put me too far ahead.
2-0
Round 4 - Affinity
Game 1 I was quickly overrun by lots of creatures and a disciple stopped me cycling my eggs to go off. After sideboarding into turbo fog I took games 2 and 3 without much of a problem.
2-1
2nd daily
Round 1 - UB trinket
Game 1 they have a lot of dead cards and do not apply much pressure. I fissure a few times and torch for the win. Game 2 can be tough against duress and augur. But double mulldrifter pull me back into the game and fissure seals the deal.
2-0
Round 2 - UR post
Game 1 is almost a formality and reap and sow quickly takes over. I assemble wall and fissure and he concedes. Game 2 I got hit by a couple of stone rain's but tilling treefolk brings them back and fissure takes the game.
2-0
Round 3 - affinity
Game 1 I go down to 5 life before I play a fissure. I then manage to play multiple fissures over the next 2 turns and torch for the win. Game 2 he gets a very quick start and I stumble on mana. I have to torch a disciple turn 3 so that I don't lose to sacrifice effects. I have multiple fogs and stall. Eventually I catch up and strangely enough win via mulldrifter beats.
2-0
Round 4 - UR post
Game 1 is the same as round 2. Game 2 I get my cloud post destroyed 4 times but treefolk plus flicker get them back and they were having the same mana troubles thanks to reap. Eventually I pull out the win.
2-0
Hope that helps
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UG Post
Mar 25, 2013 5:32:03 GMT -5
Post by monk1410 on Mar 25, 2013 5:32:03 GMT -5
My current list is:
4 Cloudpost 4 Glimmerpost 4 Forest 5 Island 2 Remote Isle 1 Shmimering Grotto 2 Slippery Karst
1 Mnemonic Wall 4 Mulldrifter
4 Chromatic Sphere 4 Chromatic Star 4 Compulsive Research 4 Crop Rotation 4 Expedition Map 3 Reap and Sow 1 Ghostly Flicker 1 Kaervek's Torch 4 Prophetic Prism 4 Temporal Fissure
SB
3 Fade Away 4 Moment's Peace 3 Fangren Marauder 3 Respite 1 Tilling Treefolk 1 Reap and Sow
I have updated my list as the Delver matchup has been worse than I initially thought. More testing has proven that the matchup is 65-35 in their favour. After a discussion with the Delver master XmimX I have added 3 fade away to the sb to help in that matchup.
I also see some decklists playing Blightwidow, Wha are people's views on Fade away and Blightwidow against delver
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UG Post
Mar 25, 2013 10:59:50 GMT -5
Post by shaffawaffa5 on Mar 25, 2013 10:59:50 GMT -5
Delver is a weird matchup because it depends on the strength of the pilots. If you are only playing above average delver opponents it could appear like a bad matchup (which could be the case if you are doing as well as you're saying), but in general fade aways take care of them game 2 and 3. Overall my win percentage against delver feels like 60%. This is especially true of the xmimx build which is more aggro than controlish, because fade away is a great strategy against them. However, the mezzel (more controllish) builds in the hands of a capable pilot are difficult and could warrant some spiders in the board if the deck increases and the pilots become more proficient in the matchup. If you are having difficulty with delver try a different play style and there is a good chance your win percentage will increase. Also whoever wins the die roll has a significant advantage in this matchup since a turn one delver on the play or a turn two ninja on the play are difficult but aren't that bad if you have the play.
Regarding this issue about the reap and sow vs. explore vs. chromatics/fangren vs. moment's peace or just any other tweaks you're seeing in the meta, the choice is not one of correctness, but of preference and play style. I play the deck as more of a ramp deck or you could characterize my style as a tempo deck even. Most people play it like a combo deck, they want to lock the opponent with mneomic walls and thus want to maximize cantripping. If you want to play more comboish I think that explore is quite good in that role. If you want to play more rampish then I can get behind the reap and sows. But I go with the fangrens and moment's peace because I am hedging against the meta and because fangren really suits my play style. My goal against almost every deck is to torch them as quickly as possible. My goal is rarely fissureing them. I find that the fangren acts as lifegain primarily, but the 5 extra damage means I need 3 cloudposts and 2 glimmerposts to win instead of the usual 4 cloudposts and one glimmer. Plus in all honesty the best card in the 75 is moment's peace. MP is like a double timewalk against almost all decks so eventually I made the change to the main deck with it. I agree its not stellar against delver or u/r cloudpost. But u/r cloudpost is a bye game one, and its not that much worse against delver than an explore since you draw a card by taking another turn.
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UG Post
Mar 25, 2013 11:39:44 GMT -5
Post by cweaver on Mar 25, 2013 11:39:44 GMT -5
How do you guys sideboard? Seems rough, you don't want to disrupt your combo and ramp abilities by oversideboarding, but some decks it's necessary to become essentially a Turbo Fog deck.
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UG Post
Mar 25, 2013 13:17:25 GMT -5
Post by shaffawaffa5 on Mar 25, 2013 13:17:25 GMT -5
usually the first four out for me are chromatic spheres because they are slightly worse than stars (this is relevant occasionally). Sometimes I take out a fissure or two, and against affinity I take them all out and I take out flicker and wall, since grudge + moment's peace + maurader is enough business already. If I'm playing against control then I take out my moment's peace and maybe the maurader first.
Again, I play super aggressively and I don't play this deck like a combo deck very often. I try to maximize my mana every turn unless I am holding up a moment's peace or ghostly flicker. So maybe protecting the shell is more important for some than myself so keep that in mind.
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ckangas
Raging Brainstorm
Posts: 69
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UG Post
Mar 25, 2013 20:59:37 GMT -5
Post by ckangas on Mar 25, 2013 20:59:37 GMT -5
Board in arrows against delver.
It 3:1s cloud of fairies, spellstutter sprite, unflipped delver, and the bear. Ninjas and golems are the only thing it doesn't.
It allows you several turns before you need to start fogging.
Fade away has always worked better in theory than in practice. It can be difficult to have 2 U to cast it early, and later on, they're probably holding mana open for spells. I can see the arguments for running fade away in MUC (god knows i've tried it many times before), but I think arrows are a much better fit to stop delver in a deck with access to so much colorless mana.
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UG Post
Mar 28, 2013 11:50:40 GMT -5
Post by pitlord on Mar 28, 2013 11:50:40 GMT -5
I've never been a big fan of fade away in practice despite loving it in theory. The fact that even if you catch someone with it that they can just sacrifice their lands and keep beating down is rough.
As for the maindeck it looks sweet and I like Reap and Sow even if it seems a little slow the raw power of the card seems worth it. The one slot I would suggest that Mikey and I have both been playing with is fitting in Preordain somewhere. I've got it instead of Chromatic Sphere since they were getting boarding out so often anyway, and I believe Mikey is/was playing without Mulldrifter and having Preordain there.
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Post by monk1410 on Apr 2, 2013 8:49:38 GMT -5
I agree on fade away, I have came to the conclusion it is best to have a few diverse answers against delver as they can play around a 1 answer quite easily.
I also agree with Shaffawaffa that sphere comes out in most matchups and that having the 3 cards (2 peace and 1 fangren) in the main are right for the current meta.
I have dropped a sphere to make room for the full 4 fissure plus 2 Kaervek's Torch
I don't like ancient grudge, its not that its bad but if drawn late it is underwhelming. I like Respite in that spot as it doubles vs elves, goblins, stompy
I also like having a few cards for delver so having widow and fade away have been working quite well. I also leave in a couple of Moment's Peace.
Finally I think decree/ serene heart are not needed anymore as enchantments are dropping off.
My current list is:
4 Cloudpost 4 Glimmerpost 4 Forest 5 Island 2 Remote Isle 1 Shmimering Grotto 2 Slippery Karst
1 Fangren Marauder 1 Mnemonic Wall 4 Mulldrifter
3 Chromatic Sphere 4 Chromatic Star 4 Compulsive Research 4 Crop Rotation 4 Expedition Map 2 Moment's Peace 1 Ghostly Flicker 2 Kaervek's Torch 4 Prophetic Prism 4 Temporal Fissure
SB
2 Fade Away 2 Moment's Peace 2 Fangren Marauder 3 Blightwidow 2 Respite 1 Tilling Treefolk 3 Reap and Sow
The only thing I would like is to find room for another treefolk but so far it has been workin very well.
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