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Post by RockBass on Jan 30, 2013 0:22:36 GMT -5
Makes sense. Almost just a cya that they could do an update a month later if something became degenerate.
I stick by my declarations from the episode that has yet to be posted. They should have just banned mountains.
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Post by Fan of History on Jan 30, 2013 3:17:17 GMT -5
My thoughts on the bannings: www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5kRZzMgdP8Overall, I think that in the long run this will be very good for Pauper. The two things I think are worst is that Izzet Post will be so strong now (without two of its worst enemies, Storm and Infect) and that I have lost so much dollar value on my Storm cards
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avery61
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Post by avery61 on Jan 30, 2013 3:27:07 GMT -5
I disagree that post will see a huge upsurge, maybe, at first it will see an uptick but there are decks that give post fits. Slowing the format down will hopefully give rise to some midrange decks, but likely we'll see stompy/goblins/burn get a boost.
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Post by RockBass on Jan 30, 2013 10:26:40 GMT -5
I disagree that post will see a huge upsurge, maybe, at first it will see an uptick but there are decks that give post fits. Slowing the format down will hopefully give rise to some midrange decks, but likely we'll see stompy/goblins/burn get a boost. This.
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Post by grapplingfarang on Jan 30, 2013 10:36:38 GMT -5
Besides being disappointed that my deck is banned, I see this as the end of Pauper as we know it. Pauper will still be around, but it is going to slowly turn into a "fair" format with the bannings needed to rebalance the format after this.
I think WOTC wants Pauper to be a format to hook newer players in to becoming tournament players. To help with this they want to make it more forgiving with less early kills to turn new players off. The problem with these bannings is that they are going to seriously throw the balance of the format out of whack. I think Cloudpost and Cloud of Faeries (to hurt fissure storm and stop some of the unfair things Delver can do) will be the next to go. After that, Delver of Secrets, Atog, Gush, and possibly Rancor may have to be looked at depending on how the format is balanced. I'm not sure how this will turn out, who knows, it may be the most fun fair format ever. It will certainly end up looking much much different though.
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Post by yugular on Jan 30, 2013 10:46:06 GMT -5
grappling has good point. This is very unfortunate for those that enjoyed the cutthroat format that pauper was. Now the future is unpredictable but worst case scenario is what grapplingfarang mentioned.
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Post by Fan of History on Jan 31, 2013 3:29:51 GMT -5
I think that is not a big worst case scenario and I do think Grapplingfarang is right. I am sure Cloudpost will be banned in May (April?). Cloud of Faeries is probably in trouble too, especially if Familiar Storm has a good run now (and what can really stop it?).
Eventually we might end up with a banned list the length of the Modern banned list.
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avery61
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Post by avery61 on Jan 31, 2013 4:04:17 GMT -5
I don't see post getting banned - it's just not that dangerous. It can't beat you early and they're multiple answers vs. post decks, especially now that you can dedicate more sideboard space to beating it.
Banning a deck that can win turn one, but typically turn three, is a good thing IMO. With storm you can't answer Grapeshot, even after board. You get what a duress,? on turn one and they can still go off turn three, before you can get the mana up for Hindering Touch. There were answers for Empty the Warrens so I can see an unbanning of this cards but still a turn two/three combo is hard to get past.
Invigorate made it almost impossible for most decks to remove a turn one drop. Protecting a creature after you've tapped out meant that you couldn't just bolt it and proceed. I was beaten yesterday on my opponents turn two (my turn one) after he doule invig'ed an elf, how do you compete with that?
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Post by yugular on Jan 31, 2013 7:15:49 GMT -5
I was beaten yesterday on my opponents turn two (my turn one) after he doule invig'ed an elf, how do you compete with that? You do realize that variance is part of the game? Infect is very inconsistent and while it has good chance to kill on t2/t3 it is very vulnerable to hand disruption and fog effects. I didn't see Infect as a problem, I saw it as a part of a very healthy and varied metagame. One of the defining decks of the format for sure.
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Post by RockBass on Jan 31, 2013 10:19:00 GMT -5
I guess that in any given format, a kill sooner than turn 4 is too soon for Wizards.
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slowe
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Post by slowe on Jan 31, 2013 11:16:32 GMT -5
There's an article on the mothership that talks a little bit about the pauper bannings. Unfortunately, there's still no real discussion or explanation of the change. Instead, it feels like JVL was told to play up the bannings as a good thing without any in-depth insight into the format. I'm sure everything sounds great to people who don't play pauper, but why would they care anyway? I'm pretty disappointed if this is all the "explanation" we're going to see.
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avery61
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Post by avery61 on Jan 31, 2013 13:56:40 GMT -5
Whether or not you agree or disagree with the bannings one thing positive has come from it, lots of discussion here on the forums. I'm sure the bannings will be a topic on the next podcast, I would love to see a pro vs con debate on it. I know Mikey seems to be pro and Matti is con so if you get get those two on oppisite sides it's sure to be lively, but either way looking forward to the next podcast.
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Post by RockBass on Jan 31, 2013 15:46:08 GMT -5
We talked about it for sure on Monday when we recorded.
Of course, it's not up yet......
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Post by grapplingfarang on Jan 31, 2013 20:24:42 GMT -5
If it is a good thing or a bad thing is going to come down to what kind of magic you like. For some players, they may enjoy the new Pauper more than the old one. Personally, I don't imagine I will enjoy it as much because I enjoy the intense decisions that eternal formats bring. I also don't imagine that we will see any metagame with as even of a split between Aggro, Control, and Combo. The one things that I think most will be able to agree on is that it was a mistake to not ban Cloudpost and Cloud of Faeries at the same time as the other bannings. I see things getting very out of balanced, and really very boring until these bannings happen. If you have not faced Fissure storm multiple times in the same event yet, you are in for a treat.
As far as the Jacob Van Lunen article, it is hard for me to comment on it to much without it seeming like I am bashing him. Throughout the article, I kept getting the impression that he has never actually played Pauper. Without picking apart the whole thing, one thing that really stood out was the ending. That he thinks that the deck with Standard Bearers, Benevolant Unicorns, and Suture Priests might make a comeback with Infect and Storm gone and a completely awful matchup predicted to be the top deck seems pretty weak. I have the feeling that he has never played against Glimmerpost and Ghostly Flicker.
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avery61
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Post by avery61 on Jan 31, 2013 23:22:09 GMT -5
I don't think most will agree that any post needs to be banned. They can be out-matched by fast aggro and do not have the clock that Poison & Grapeshot had.
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