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Post by mayandisaster on Jul 30, 2013 2:27:59 GMT -5
getting value from sacrificing your own guys is my favourite strategy in magic, and i've been trying to develop a deck to fit this strategy in pauper. i initially built this deck in W/B, with value cards like doomed traveler, butcher ghoul and blind hunter, with carrion feeder and bloodthrone vampire as sacrifice outlets.
however, i feel that hunger of the howlpack is a very strong card, and in general green lends itself more towards this sort of strategy, so i'm trying to adapt the deck to a more green base.
here is my 'current' build:
version 0.2!
Creatures 4 Carrion Feeder 4 Fume Spitter 4 Young Wolf 2 Tukatongue Thalid 4 Nest Invader 2 Butcher Ghoul 2 Bloodthrone Vampire 4 Putrid Leech 2 Viridian Emissary 3 Festerhide Boar
Spells 4 Hunger of the Howlpack 3 Bequeathal 2 Disfigure
Artifacts 2 Sylvok Lifestaff
Land 2 Golgari Guildgate 9 Forest 7 Swamp
Sideboard 2 Spore Frog 2 Stinkweed Imp 3 Duress 2 Doom Blade 2 Scattershot Archer 2 Gleeful Sabotage 2 Ranger's Guile
basically the deck runs a number of undying creatures with creatures that benefit from sacrificing others, as well as creatures that can sacrifice themselves for value.
the deck has some extremely quick starts, but for the most part it feels like an underpowered version of stompy, essentially. putrid leech is excellent, and reason enough for the black, but i feel the deck is missing either some 3 or 4 drops, or just a more streamline and simpler build to push it into competitive play. i have hope for it but i feel it might be a little too cute.
card choices: Carrion Feeder - the best sacrifice outlet in pauper, grows pretty huge pretty quick. Bloodthrone Vampire - essentially Carrion Feeders 5 + 6, but also a threat by themselves. basically an atog on a full board. Tukatongue Thalid - greens doomed traveler, pretty much, except without flying. feels underpowered, and up for cutting. Fume Spitter - Fume Spitter is here mostly for delver, and coincidentally has a lot of synergies with the deck, including a nifty interaction with undying creatures. Nest Invader - Nest Invader is so sweet. its ramp, a morbid enabler, and a nice 2/2 body all in one. Viridian Emissary - something i'm trying out, a beater which helps with fixing. Festerhide Boar - in this deck, he will almost always be a 5/5 trampler, but 3 might be too many, drawing into multiples early is kind of awkward.
what are your thoughts?
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dom
Raging Brainstorm
Posts: 59
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Post by dom on Jul 30, 2013 5:49:24 GMT -5
Nice one, i'll give it a closer look if I have time to do so. Have you thougt about festerhide boar? The 'bombs away' deck did run it. You can ramp into it with nest invader. You could also consider some copies of bequethal.
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Post by mayandisaster on Jul 30, 2013 6:22:45 GMT -5
festerhide boar and nest invader seems like a sweet combo, i was looking at the boar before i added the nest invaders (they were initially dregscape zombies) but seemed to completely miss that. thanks!
i was also considering cutting a new of the undying creatures (mostly the butcher ghouls) to find room for some better creatures
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Post by theonyxphoenix on Jul 30, 2013 13:18:07 GMT -5
This looks similar to a GW persist deck that I was working on that initially started out as GB. Feeding persist creatures to the Carrion Feeder can go infinite with Ivy Lane. I found it to work well against aggro but had real trouble against Hexproof and flying. This is the GW version I was toying with: paupertothepeople.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=pauperdecks&action=display&thread=858I see some things in your list that I overlooked and Bequethal is interesting. I too feel like they are less consistent versions of Stompy, etc. but also have potential.
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Post by mayandisaster on Jul 31, 2013 0:42:56 GMT -5
thanks for the suggestions! i updated the list in the OP and added some reasoning for the card choices. the deck feels a lot better already, bequeathal is pretty sweet, as is the boar. needs more testing but i'm optimistic!
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dom
Raging Brainstorm
Posts: 59
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Post by dom on Jul 31, 2013 6:43:13 GMT -5
I have merged my Project X (The Carron Feeder / Denizen / Safehold Elite Combo deck) and this one together, this is what came out:
4 Carrion Feeder 1 Elvish Herder 4 Young Wolf 4 Putrid Leech 4 Elvish Herald 4 Safehold Elite 3 Bloodflow Connaisseur 2 Ivy Lane Denizen 3 Festerhide Boar
3 Bequetheal 2 Tragic Slip 1 Nameless Inversion 1 Diabolic Edict
4 Golgari Guildgate 2 Terramorphic Expanse 2 Evolving Wilds 9 Forest 7 Swamp
No SB yet.
I am unsure about Young Wolf. Maybe the deck just wants Elves of Deep Shadow for a potential t3 Kill. Wooff is decent, but not amazing. Herald is just fantastic, it tutors for all the combo pieces except a sac outlet, plus removal or elvish herder for the win (with an infi/infi carrion feeder).
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Post by mayandisaster on Jul 31, 2013 18:18:15 GMT -5
looks good! tutoring in pauper is extremely powerful i think (looking at you trinket mage...) and tutoring for creatures seems sweet!! will give this one a shot for sure
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dom
Raging Brainstorm
Posts: 59
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Post by dom on Aug 2, 2013 7:08:34 GMT -5
I tested the deck a bit more, here is what I am at currently: 4 Carron Feeder 1 Essence Warden 1 Elvish Herder 4 Safehold Elite 4 Putrid Leech 4 Wirewood Herald 3 Nest Invader 3 Bloodflow Connoisseur 3 Festerhide Boar 2 Ivy Lane Denizen 3 Tragic Slip 4 Bequetheal 1 Nameless Inversion 4 Golgari Guildgate 2 Evolving Wilds 2 Terramorphic Expanse 9 Forest 6 Swamp Sideboard: 1 Diabolic Edict 1 Tragic Slip 3 Duress 3 Thermokarst 3 Gleeful Sabotage 2 Serene Heart 2 Scattershot Archer I want Herder and Warden in for game 1, just in case. Most of the time, one or even two of them get cut. I like the 6 virtual copies of scattershot archer after boarding. Maybe there is room for a singleton Eyeblights Ending in the board, but I am not sure yet. Also, 4 Bequetheal might be too much, I could easily see substituting one for either a fourth Invader or Boar. I like how the deck can go multiple angles, being solid aggro with big dudes on the one hand and combo with the persist / denizen / sac guy interaction on the other hand (also infi life potential and giving your infi guy trample with Herder). I will probably make a video or two of the deck on mtgostrat, so stay tuned. I will post them asap. mayandisaster: You should think about adding the deck to the Pauper Gauntlet, I would love to see it there. Plus, it would be hillarious to see Dan sweating while trying not to screw up :-D.
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greystone
Is Super Cool
A true victory is to make your enemy see they were wrong to oppose you in the first place.
Posts: 110
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Post by greystone on Aug 2, 2013 7:57:44 GMT -5
Should have let Me know, I was recording last night. Didn't get our matches though.
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Post by mayandisaster on Aug 2, 2013 9:09:32 GMT -5
i do like this build a lot actually, the toolbox elf theme seems to be surprisingly powerful. i quite like having access to vines/guile either main or side though, just to help protect your big guys. i like where this is going a lot though, looking forward to testing this version out!
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dom
Raging Brainstorm
Posts: 59
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Post by dom on Aug 4, 2013 6:18:38 GMT -5
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Post by mayandisaster on Aug 4, 2013 10:54:29 GMT -5
excellent work! definitely agree with the f6 thing though, happened to me quite often, would miss out on counters etc.
about the boar: while he is super strong and tends to finish games by himself sometimes, he does take a little work and sometimes is just a dead card. i'm going to try out primal huntbeast in the slot, the idea being to get some denizen counters on him and go to town. not sure yet.
the MBC matchup is kind of tough; though our guys are resilient to removal, unearth and the fact that 90% of their deck is removal is kind of tedious. i'm running 3 vines in the maindeck and 2 undying evil in the sideboard, which seems odd/silly at first but keeping a threat against certain removal heavy decks is essential, even if it is just a safehold elite coming back like 3 or 4 times. vines have been ok so far, not too sure.
also don't mind some sort of 'golgari zombies' variant, with ghoulcaller's chant. not sure what else green offers beside the leech yet though. looping ghoulraisers over and over is pretty powerful, might be something to it.
anyway, good work with the vids, excited to see how it fairs in the gauntlet!
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dom
Raging Brainstorm
Posts: 59
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Post by dom on Aug 5, 2013 4:36:03 GMT -5
I think i'm in love :-). The deck is super fun and I start winning too. I don't think its ready for a DE just yet, but maybe we're onto something guys. New video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN0IES9OUpQ
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greystone
Is Super Cool
A true victory is to make your enemy see they were wrong to oppose you in the first place.
Posts: 110
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Post by greystone on Aug 6, 2013 15:30:50 GMT -5
I like this deck concept, and it isn't unfun to play against.
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dom
Raging Brainstorm
Posts: 59
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Post by dom on Aug 7, 2013 11:47:19 GMT -5
Hey guys,
I am glad you all liked the deck. I have gotten some suggestions for it and will shortly comment on them:
Deathgreeter is the same as essence warden, but not tutorable. I go back and forth between having warden in the maindeck and not, have not setteled yet. Rancor is also not tutorable and can be replaced by elvish herder, which is in the main. House guard and shred are both flexible, but the tutoring is not something I want. I have had the deck as a pure combo version with 4x denizen, more tutors, stuff to protect the combo and all that jazz. It was horrible. I see the deck more as a GB aggro / value deck that can go off but doesnt have to in order to win, so I dont want to waste slots in the mainboard for tutors.
Tribe elder and Viridian emissary dont do any of the decks two plans (attacking / comboing) very good. Emissary could be an idea, but i prefer nest invader in that slot because it is a good bequetheal target and ramps you if you want to (emissary doesnt ramp against post / delver / fissure - too many to be reliable). Nest Invader also gives you two potential sac candidates.
Black Cat and Mesmeric Fiend are too whimsy and don't attack well enough. I don't have much of disruption for non-creatures in the main and adding a few cards won't make that better. I want cards that help my main two plans.
Driver of the Dead and Symbiotic Elf are just too expensive. Faceless Butcher, Festering Newt, Abyssal Gatekeeper and Festering Goblin could be good, but I want to stick to Slip / Edict for now, because they are instant speed, and don't want more removal.
Ghoulraiser seems too bad with only leech and inversion to return. Looping it is too slow / cute.
What I will do for the next video is removing the boars and one nest invader for two unearths and another slip, putting the third gleeful sabotage back in the board. I can't think of anything better than duresses against post right now and would like to cut the 3rd gleeful and one duress for 2 cards against storm. LD could be good, but we don't ramp and want to spend our early / midgame with develloping threats. Boars were overall too unreliable when topdecked / too difficult to play on curve.
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